sui men ca : The Ambiguity of Somatic Sound
Interview by Ayae Takise
Image courtesy of the artists
In John Cage’s THE SEASONS, an omnibus performance program organized by pianist Hiroshi Yokoyama which consists of experimental modern music and contemporary dance, “somatic music band” sui men ca will premiere A - Un.
In this conversation, we will explore why sui men ca, in the midst of their creation, is going to take this attempt in a program bearing the name of the renowned music theorist and one of the pioneers of performance art.
The body as the source and signifié of sound
―As a unit “sui men ca,” you are going to premiere A - Un in “John Cage’s THE SEASONS,” an omnibus stage performance organized by pianist Hiroshi Yokoyama. Sui men ca’s activities started just before you received an offer from Hiroshi.
Osono Before sui men ca, I often danced during my live music performance or in my music video, but handling voice and physicality as something completely separate. However, I began to feel I could deepen my style if I could naturally use these media as a whole. That is when I offered Saki to research together.
Saki Aonuma Osono was my senior during junior high/high school dance club and university (Department of Dance at Japan Women's College of Physical Education) so I thought we shared a common language at a certain point. I have taken voice training lessons during my teens and often created singing scenes in my choreography pieces. I have also been taking opera lessons for several years, and was thinking of pursuing my vocal expressions. That’s why I teamed with Osono.
―Did you refer to anything upon exploring “voice and physicality?”
Osono Even now, I sometimes attend movement research workshops which use voice. For example, when I attended a workshop by dancer Naoka Uemura and Hiroyuki Miura, we shaped vocal sounds into physical movements, like “This letter’s sound looks like this movement,” or formed our body based on a specific glyph shape. These approaches fit me quite well and I tried exploring and developed more from these.
Aonuma In 2020-2022, I joined butoh dancer Kim Itoh’s Physical Theater Company GERO. I shared several approaches I experienced at GERO – to go back and forth language and vocal sounds – to sui men ca’s creation process, too. Like “dubbing” between voice and body, or gradually changing meaningless vocal sounds to meaningful words, and so on. Speaking of contemporary dance, these kind of ideas are not completely new, but if there’s one thing we could clearly say, GERO was exploring “nothing like dance nor music nor drama” while we declare ourselves as a “somatic band making music through physicality.”
―I have seen several videos from your creation research. Indeed, sui men ca’s focus is on sound, rather than dealing with language or letter shapes. Tell us about your creation process in detail.
Osono We have been doing research workshops once per week since last summer, and so far we found three patterns – One, to dub the vocal (sound) to the body. Two, To dub the body to the vocal (sound). And three, play with the body and existing melody or rhythm. We have been wandering around these patterns in a gradient, experimenting as we “cooked the piece.”
―I see. I think your focus on sound consists of two aspects and goes back and forth to each other – One is to deal with the body as the source of sound, like an instrument. Second, to signify the sound through the body, I might say this is a very onomatopoeia-based idea.
Osono Our premiering piece A - Un consists of actions and sounds born from these experiments, blurring the borders between the voice and body, as well as the position of the subject. Just about a month before the premiere, we decided to divide the piece into four “actions.” The voice and body, the sound born from it are the main features in all actions. However, we take a performance-art-like approach focusing on actions, and performing-arts-like approach focusing on sound and movement emerging from the body – For us, these two are completely different approaches to deal with, so we take an interval before going to the next phase.
This was an idea from Hiroshi, to “divide like musical movements,” – a very musician-like idea – and that being said, I feel A - Un is not something that should be called a “dance piece.”
Aonuma In the trailer we used the term “dance,” but as we proceeded our creation we felt our presence onstage is something outside this term. “Playing music” is what we are doing – treating our bodies like percussion. Also, I could “play” my internal organs so this idea also appears in the piece.
―You could intentionally let your internal organs make sounds?!
Aonuma When I try abdominal breathing when I sing, somewhere inside my body – I don’t know exactly where but somewhere around my left ribs or stomach – makes sounds, maybe because I’m hungry or nervous. During the performance, we are going to attach pin microphones to share the slightest sounds from the body or small sighs with the audience.
―Come to think of it, the voice is a medium that lies between the external/inner body. It could be recognized as sound to others, while it is also something that changes in the internal state of the body.
The spectrum of presence
―Let us hear further about what Ms.Aonuma said previously, “the way to exist onstage.”
Aonuma There is an “off” moment between each action, which was something I was concerned about. I feel lost when I go onstage and have to “be present in an off mode,” like I am showing something inappropriate to the audience. I went through this topic when I was at GERO, and this is something often said in dance or theater, but this time, it’s a bit different – From my point of view, Osono could exist onstage either way, on or off, and it seems so natural all the way.
Osono That’s what she says! In the past five years, I have experienced small live sessions where I intimately share the space with the audience, so I am rather used to the “non-theatrical way of existing.” For example, I don’t turn on my “being-seen-switch” during intervals between songs, when I set my microphones or prepare for the next. On the other hand, Saki is conscious about the “being-seen-switch” so she was confused about the way she should exist onstage.
―I agree that Osono’s presence is unique when she is put in a situation visible from the audience. Having seen her live performances, it is definitely something a stage person could not usually do.
Osono I do agree it is usual for a performer to feel tense and self-disciplined in an onstage situation, and Saki is not an exception, so she should be confused about how she should be present. Maybe I have unconsciously gone through alot of trials and errors through live sessions, like “Today I’m going to stand here” or “This time I will try there.” If I have only gone through stage performances at theaters or large halls, I wouldn’t be who I am right now, and that may be because I can’t act like a so-called “dancer.”
―True, how you switch your body on-stage or off-stage, or the spectrum between the two state may differ if you have experienced live sessions where you are close to the audience, compared to theater houses.
Osono During the creation, we received an advice from the staff crew that sui men ca should face A - Un as an instruction-based piece (not as performing arts) considering the purpose of the performance. It is the most essential issue and the hint to the piece’s future, and worth exploring in an earnest way.
Aonuma I was more puzzled about the onstage presence issue last year when we started researching, but now, I am sorting it out better. Initially I was mustering my voice and physicality with all my strength, perceiving the two as something separate – Now, it comes out from me much spontaneously. I am sure I am going to explore how my body could be in a genuine state, not a “performing” body.
―The whole omnibus performance consists of piano or performance works by John Cage and Takehisa Kosugi, and sui men ca’s premiering piece is completely original aside from these, speaking of concept. Nevertheless, personally I see some connections between sui men ca’s work and Cage, Kosugi’s achievements(*).
For example, the scene where you share your inner organ sound – In the early 1950’s, Cage visited an anechoic chamber where he heard his inner body sound and discovered that true silence does not exist, which influenced him to compose 4’33” and other pieces. Did you know this and decide the specific action in A - Un?
Note: The performance program includes John Cage/ Merce Cunningham's early works The Seasons and In a Landscape, as well as Cage's masterpiece 4’33”, Takehisa Kosugi’s instructional works ANIMA 7 and MICRO I, selected among his numerous approaches.
Aonuma That’s a new information!
―It’s too good to be a coincidence. And Kosugi’s ANIMA 7, too – This piece instructs the performer to extend “ordinary everyday actions” to a “long predetermined time period.” Your idea to amplify or emphasize physical actions or somatic sounds connects with this. I find it interesting that you are practicing actions without being conscious about these.
Art to be performed in any way by anyone
―Having a conversation with you two, several correspondence of ambiguity is arising. I might say the voice (sound) and body, something perceptible or imperceptible, and on-stage or off-stage presence.
Aonuma Yes, and especially the idea to go back and forth voice and body, or to dub sound to physical actions. I think it is something we could share to everyone despite their age or professional experience in dance. Osono is planning to share sui men ca’s ideas and methods to the public. After I heard about this and came back to rehearsal, it made sense to me.
Osono sui men ca’s activity policy has been set through the creation process for this performance. While we continue to practice as core members, we want to form sui men ca as a fluid community consisting of many– Of course you can join, too (laughs) We are still in the midst of building a fixed method, but the way we do things have the possibility to be shared to more and let them develop it in their original way. I think it’s a healthy idea for unspecified people to participate in art.
―Again I am connecting your idea to other performance programs. In Cage’s 0’00”, the second part of 4’33”, the score states that the piece is a “Solo to be performed in any way by anyone.” When thinking about how sui men ca should be as a platform open to others, I feel that this text that Cage left nearly 60 years ago can be a hint.
Osono Personally I like the idea of water, so sui men ca (=underwater) is a metaphor for people to genuinely enjoy opening their mind and body and freely “swim” under the water of the society without any premise of presentation. That way I feel thrilled with expectations to create something new rather than focusing on the outcome.
Osono, Hiroshi Yokoyama, Saki Aonuma
Note from Seen Scenes
Yokoyama, the organizer of this program, has a background in Baroque music such as the harpsichord, but he also actively engages in American experimental music such as John Cage and Morton Feldman. He sometimes “plays” non-keyboard music, which he has received worldwide acclaim for it. For example, Yokoyama states that Cage's 4’33” (featured in the program) is “a piece that plays rests.“ He will also perform instructional works such as o’00” which lets performers make everyday movements onstage – with no admit he is a musician who goes beyond the border of classical music, in to the field of performance art. “If you try to play the instructions seriously, what you need to do will naturally come to you, so I consider Cage's works and Kosugi's works to be 'classical music.'“ Yokoyama is more than just a pianist, a remarkable performer.
Even in regular music performances, there is a considerable awareness of “seeing and being seen” relationship between the performer and the audience. However, when compared to works that use the body as a medium, the definition changes dramatically. In terms of presenting these points, I think this performance, in which Yokoyama has created a lineup of works with strong performance art elements together with the two dancers, is extremely meaningful.
Osono
Saki Aonuma
John Cage’s THE SEASONS: What did Takehisa Kosugi, Merce Cunningham, and Isamu Noguchi pursue?
April 3oth Tues. 2024 19:00-20:40 [18:30 open]
Venue: Toyosu Civic Center Hall (Google Map)
Performers
Hiroshi Yokoyama (piano) / sui men ca : Osono, Saki Aonuma (dance)
Program
John Cage: The Seasons, In a Landscape, 4’33”
Takehisa Kosugi: INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC, MICRO I, ANIMA 7
sui men ca: A - Un (world premiere)
Credit
Sound: Shotaro Narita / Set Design: Shintaro Fukuda / Lighting Design: Makoto Uemura / Cinematography: MAGATAMA CINEMA
Supported by Arts Council Tokyo, Tokyo Metropolitan Foundation for History and Culture, The Asahi Shimbun Foundation
Sponsored by Fazioli Japan Co., Ltd.